1 00:03:15,339 --> 00:03:11,770 our life okay good morning and welcome 2 00:03:17,890 --> 00:03:15,349 to the morning session of the asteroid 3 00:03:22,780 --> 00:03:17,900 deflection demonstrations idea synthesis 4 00:03:24,399 --> 00:03:22,790 discussion we've got not a full crowd 5 00:03:25,869 --> 00:03:24,409 this morning in the house not as much as 6 00:03:28,059 --> 00:03:25,879 we had yesterday afternoon but hopefully 7 00:03:31,270 --> 00:03:28,069 folks will trickle in as we get started 8 00:03:34,949 --> 00:03:31,280 here again my name is Dan Maz Nick from 9 00:03:38,470 --> 00:03:34,959 from NASA Langley Research Center my 10 00:03:42,129 --> 00:03:38,480 co-chair here is Paul able from Johnson 11 00:03:44,559 --> 00:03:42,139 Space Center Paul's actually filling in 12 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:44,569 for Pat troutman back at Langley who had 13 00:03:50,129 --> 00:03:47,810 to go home for some family matters Pat 14 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:50,139 may be actually on the line this morning 15 00:03:57,849 --> 00:03:53,650 to participate in the discussion as well 16 00:03:59,830 --> 00:03:57,859 so what we had yesterday just a recap 17 00:04:02,770 --> 00:03:59,840 and I'm going to step up to the podium 18 00:04:04,390 --> 00:04:02,780 in just a few minutes to UM to kind of 19 00:04:09,750 --> 00:04:04,400 facilitate the discussion here this 20 00:04:13,750 --> 00:04:09,760 morning we had 13 presentations that 21 00:04:16,539 --> 00:04:13,760 were all very very well done and again I 22 00:04:17,979 --> 00:04:16,549 appreciate the presenters adhering to 23 00:04:22,390 --> 00:04:17,989 the time constraints I think the 24 00:04:25,210 --> 00:04:22,400 sessions session went very smoothly what 25 00:04:26,770 --> 00:04:25,220 we what we what I did last night was I 26 00:04:28,330 --> 00:04:26,780 kind of pulled together a summary that 27 00:04:30,159 --> 00:04:28,340 would be using in the plenary session 28 00:04:32,170 --> 00:04:30,169 and I kind of view this as kind of a 29 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:32,180 working session will edit charts real 30 00:04:36,100 --> 00:04:33,970 time because that plenary happens at 31 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:36,110 ten-fifteen I believe I think we have a 32 00:04:41,980 --> 00:04:40,130 15 minute break so we'll go you know a 33 00:04:43,450 --> 00:04:41,990 few minutes before 10 probably few 34 00:04:46,300 --> 00:04:43,460 minutes to clean up charts if I need to 35 00:04:47,950 --> 00:04:46,310 at the end but we've got the whole two 36 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:47,960 hours here for discussion if we finish 37 00:04:50,950 --> 00:04:49,610 early and we have nothing more to say 38 00:04:52,779 --> 00:04:50,960 and nothing more to contribute them will 39 00:04:57,939 --> 00:04:52,789 have a little bit of free time before 40 00:05:00,700 --> 00:04:57,949 the plenary session um so first of all I 41 00:05:04,540 --> 00:05:00,710 guess maybe I can ask is is Pat troutman 42 00:05:07,270 --> 00:05:04,550 on the line can he respond no oh we 43 00:05:10,469 --> 00:05:07,280 don't have any telecon ah did not 44 00:05:13,180 --> 00:05:10,479 realize that okay so we're going to go 45 00:05:15,850 --> 00:05:13,190 modern old-fashioned and if there 46 00:05:18,460 --> 00:05:15,860 besides using the the twitter feed that 47 00:05:22,030 --> 00:05:18,470 Jonathan bowie's is mana 48 00:05:23,950 --> 00:05:22,040 terrain I will have my my cell phone for 49 00:05:27,550 --> 00:05:23,960 a text message if there's anything that 50 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:27,560 needs to be said this morning from 51 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:32,510 outside so please use the protect plush 52 00:05:37,420 --> 00:05:35,810 tag protect planet on Twitter and I 53 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:37,430 think there is a is there a link on the 54 00:05:43,330 --> 00:05:40,970 website too are they on the ustream 55 00:05:44,830 --> 00:05:43,340 there is a communications method on the 56 00:05:47,620 --> 00:05:44,840 ustream if you don't have a twitter 57 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:47,630 there's a chat function there so you can 58 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:49,250 use either those and you can get there 59 00:06:00,220 --> 00:05:53,690 by going to ww nasa gov asteroid 60 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:00,230 workshop all one word okay so um Paul do 61 00:06:03,790 --> 00:06:02,090 you have any overall general comments 62 00:06:05,410 --> 00:06:03,800 from from yesterday session no I thought 63 00:06:08,110 --> 00:06:05,420 it was a very good session very dynamic 64 00:06:09,340 --> 00:06:08,120 good feedback and so hopefully we'll 65 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:09,350 have a little bit further discussion 66 00:06:13,750 --> 00:06:10,850 round of the charts and then continue 67 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:13,760 forward okay so what I'm going to do is 68 00:06:17,260 --> 00:06:14,810 I'm going to go and step up to the 69 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:17,270 podium and we've got microphones in the 70 00:06:29,590 --> 00:06:27,040 definitely need to be by the microphone 71 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:29,600 so the folks online can hear so what I'd 72 00:06:33,820 --> 00:06:31,850 like to do I'm going to not go into 73 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:33,830 slideshow mode well let me go to slide 74 00:06:46,020 --> 00:06:35,510 show mode to start but then we'll 75 00:06:46,030 --> 00:08:28,850 you 76 00:08:34,069 --> 00:08:31,070 a subsequent kinetic impact of an 77 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:34,079 incoming large asteroid used the thrust 78 00:08:39,199 --> 00:08:38,010 to push an asteroid that should probably 79 00:08:42,139 --> 00:08:39,209 say and I'll fix up some grammar 80 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:42,149 justjust still miss some things that's 81 00:08:45,980 --> 00:08:44,490 basically ion beam deflection I might 82 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:45,990 put that let me actually let me pop out 83 00:08:55,009 --> 00:08:47,610 and do it right now because otherwise 84 00:08:57,560 --> 00:08:55,019 we'll forget and and again if folks do 85 00:08:59,300 --> 00:08:57,570 see any thing that's kind of a working 86 00:09:04,420 --> 00:08:59,310 session please let me know when 87 00:09:09,110 --> 00:09:06,949 typical I am being shepherding an ion 88 00:09:14,530 --> 00:09:09,120 beam deflection I think we've used ion 89 00:09:17,389 --> 00:09:14,540 beam deflection for the majority of it 90 00:09:18,949 --> 00:09:17,399 low-cost kinetic impactor and again this 91 00:09:21,610 --> 00:09:18,959 is probably only applicable at the end 92 00:09:23,930 --> 00:09:21,620 of the pickup Iraq mission approach 93 00:09:27,110 --> 00:09:23,940 enhanced gravity tractor with local mass 94 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:27,120 augmentation using solar energy for 95 00:09:33,290 --> 00:09:29,730 vaporizing material for pulse of 96 00:09:35,540 --> 00:09:33,300 propulsion looking at a swarm of small 97 00:09:36,889 --> 00:09:35,550 satellites attached to a stir a 2d spin 98 00:09:40,069 --> 00:09:36,899 and redirect it that was one of the 99 00:09:42,230 --> 00:09:40,079 presentations we had yesterday and any 100 00:09:43,970 --> 00:09:42,240 applicable proposal spanning all areas 101 00:09:45,740 --> 00:09:43,980 of the mission envelope that support 102 00:09:48,199 --> 00:09:45,750 asteroid deflection that's kind of a 103 00:09:57,470 --> 00:09:48,209 rewording there go ahead well yeah come 104 00:10:01,160 --> 00:09:57,480 on up okay it's a ion beam not iron be a 105 00:10:03,259 --> 00:10:01,170 leggy can someone please go get me a cup 106 00:10:07,819 --> 00:10:03,269 of coffee this morning I want to see an 107 00:10:10,100 --> 00:10:07,829 eye on beef um I'm not keen on impulsive 108 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:10,110 propulsion it's a steady state okay um 109 00:10:14,810 --> 00:10:12,810 impulsive to me implies you know how 110 00:10:21,290 --> 00:10:14,820 about just was election deflection yeah 111 00:10:27,390 --> 00:10:24,960 yeah maybe that's not good either you 112 00:10:34,410 --> 00:10:27,400 know yeah low thrust sounds okay clash 113 00:10:37,820 --> 00:10:34,420 yeah I want to imply that it's going to 114 00:10:41,070 --> 00:10:37,830 take a period of time steady state and 115 00:10:43,230 --> 00:10:41,080 continuous continuous deflection okay 116 00:10:44,460 --> 00:10:43,240 how about low thrust because that's what 117 00:10:48,050 --> 00:10:44,470 you are going to end up generating less 118 00:10:50,250 --> 00:10:48,060 we have the most enormous solar rays in 119 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:50,260 imaginable well then that brings a point 120 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:52,090 to the last chart you had low thrust 121 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:53,650 concepts and then you had gravity 122 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:54,970 tractor are you trying to apply it 123 00:11:00,060 --> 00:10:57,130 gravity tractor is extremely low thrust 124 00:11:02,430 --> 00:11:00,070 because that is a good implication there 125 00:11:04,110 --> 00:11:02,440 but you had those two broken out on the 126 00:11:07,620 --> 00:11:04,120 previous chart yeah they will that that 127 00:11:09,270 --> 00:11:07,630 came from headquarters so I'm not going 128 00:11:10,890 --> 00:11:09,280 to mess with that chart that's how that 129 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:10,900 that's I mean literally that's what the 130 00:11:24,090 --> 00:11:19,090 RF I said so yes it was Oh thrust really 131 00:11:27,330 --> 00:11:24,100 conveys much my bro yeah not kinetic 132 00:11:34,030 --> 00:11:27,340 impactor dharna or nuclear so nuclear is 133 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:43,370 yeah the other certainly yeah how about 134 00:11:49,220 --> 00:11:46,290 let's just say for deflection rob is 135 00:11:51,139 --> 00:11:49,230 that okay Brian's making the good point 136 00:11:56,030 --> 00:11:51,149 is you know there's different classes of 137 00:12:00,500 --> 00:11:56,040 low thrust and in order to not go into 138 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:00,510 that Valley week okay if filming thinks 139 00:12:08,210 --> 00:12:02,250 of a better word to qualify that we can 140 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:08,220 always go back okay no that's that's 141 00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:13,170 good and end up saving here as we go so 142 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:15,600 and I know all the presenters aren't 143 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:19,050 here this morning but what I tried to do 144 00:12:23,030 --> 00:12:21,330 what we try to do last night was we were 145 00:12:25,370 --> 00:12:23,040 asked to provide just a summary of this 146 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:25,380 the sessions and so I tried to capture 147 00:12:31,389 --> 00:12:28,290 the the salient main point of each 148 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:31,399 presentation if the presenters are here 149 00:12:38,060 --> 00:12:33,570 you could flip through these real quick 150 00:12:39,470 --> 00:12:38,070 and you look at them and comment and I 151 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:39,480 don't know that I want to go ahead and 152 00:12:48,590 --> 00:12:41,730 read these but but basically the first 153 00:12:51,490 --> 00:12:48,600 three were we're specific companies 154 00:12:53,510 --> 00:12:51,500 approaches to the entire mission 155 00:12:56,210 --> 00:12:53,520 basically each of them advocating the 156 00:12:58,610 --> 00:12:56,220 use of their their boss or some 157 00:13:05,690 --> 00:12:58,620 derivative of their bus or some parts 158 00:13:08,510 --> 00:13:05,700 that could be made up and so I know 159 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:08,520 let's see who's who's in the room here 160 00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:12,170 Howard's in the room like is not 0 161 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:15,180 Andy's here well yeah Thank You Annie 162 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:30,890 the right here but you just came in base 163 00:13:35,510 --> 00:13:32,610 basically for the plenary session they 164 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:35,520 want a very brief synopsis um you know 165 00:13:40,940 --> 00:13:38,490 one a one sentence to sentence summary 166 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:40,950 of each of each presentation okay well I 167 00:13:45,530 --> 00:13:43,410 if we talked about something that was 168 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:45,540 beyond what was actually written did you 169 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:47,010 want to include that too or do you just 170 00:13:52,670 --> 00:13:49,890 what was written in the paper you put 171 00:13:55,460 --> 00:13:52,680 well because I did mention that we have 172 00:13:58,610 --> 00:13:55,470 we have our our system is adaptable to 173 00:14:00,170 --> 00:13:58,620 doing a ion beam as well because we have 174 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:00,180 electric thrust okay now that's a good 175 00:14:06,260 --> 00:14:02,850 push in both directions yeah and you 176 00:14:07,340 --> 00:14:06,270 kind of mentioned electrostatic track 177 00:14:09,290 --> 00:14:07,350 Tareen but there really wasn't a 178 00:14:14,090 --> 00:14:09,300 discussion about that about that yeah um 179 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:14,100 and so actually I did mention that 180 00:14:17,780 --> 00:14:15,930 Coulomb forces are larger than the 181 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:17,790 gravitational forces so if you put a 182 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:20,850 charge on the thing on the on the body 183 00:14:25,970 --> 00:14:23,130 right you could manipulate it we also 184 00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,980 also in the satellite business charge 185 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:27,600 control on the spacecraft is very 186 00:14:32,270 --> 00:14:29,610 important so we'd be applying any 187 00:14:33,710 --> 00:14:32,280 background there to the electrostatic 188 00:14:37,570 --> 00:14:33,720 tracked ring so that's all I said about 189 00:14:39,290 --> 00:14:37,580 that boy yeah you can push yeah and the 190 00:14:40,970 --> 00:14:39,300 electricity that's true the 191 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:40,980 electrostatic track turing is push as 192 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:44,930 well as pull and gravity tractor expose 193 00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,290 inb ms push only physical principles 194 00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:51,600 there right I don't know if we need to 195 00:14:54,410 --> 00:14:53,040 get down to that now you don't level of 196 00:14:55,730 --> 00:14:54,420 detail and it might want to keep that in 197 00:14:57,380 --> 00:14:55,740 the back here so I'll just I'll just 198 00:14:59,570 --> 00:14:57,390 have a sentence there about ion beam 199 00:15:01,730 --> 00:14:59,580 deflection could be accommodated yeah 200 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:01,740 and and what could be performed maybe a 201 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:04,170 better word it could be performed you 202 00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:06,210 might want to test it with our system 203 00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:07,920 before we did the gravity tractor ring 204 00:15:13,790 --> 00:15:10,260 for example that's that's what I said 205 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:13,800 yesterday okay um to test have out to 206 00:15:24,780 --> 00:15:22,680 okay the other thing that I said at the 207 00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:24,790 end of this session 2 is that you make 208 00:15:29,130 --> 00:15:27,430 you can also combine I think something 209 00:15:31,980 --> 00:15:29,140 to think about is combining techniques 210 00:15:34,950 --> 00:15:31,990 I've got that yeah yeah ok then I think 211 00:15:37,290 --> 00:15:34,960 I'm done okay Scherzer type of Howard 212 00:15:43,740 --> 00:15:37,300 can you go to the mic yeah yoga please 213 00:15:56,410 --> 00:15:43,750 thank you yeah Northrop is ROP not ruv 214 00:16:01,379 --> 00:15:59,740 yeah yeah I mean do you want to put 215 00:16:04,629 --> 00:16:01,389 parenthetically derived from astromaster 216 00:16:06,509 --> 00:16:04,639 okay yeah I had that in there originally 217 00:16:10,329 --> 00:16:06,519 and then I thought probably good enough 218 00:16:18,220 --> 00:16:10,339 but if folks are you know obviously more 219 00:16:31,689 --> 00:16:18,230 familiar with that astro a mesh thank 220 00:16:40,780 --> 00:16:37,960 alright the next slide bong we is here 221 00:16:43,379 --> 00:16:40,790 can take a look at that Jeff Landis is 222 00:16:48,579 --> 00:16:43,389 not so we can all look at it and see if 223 00:16:50,259 --> 00:16:48,589 if I summarized it sufficiently there or 224 00:16:53,079 --> 00:16:50,269 if he is there we can't hear them so if 225 00:17:01,109 --> 00:16:53,089 he's online i guess maybe he can tweet 226 00:17:04,779 --> 00:17:03,460 okay and again this is you know they've 227 00:17:09,579 --> 00:17:04,789 got the abstracts they got the 228 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:09,589 presentations is just a synopsis of the 229 00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:22,260 okay and again I thought those were two 230 00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:29,190 very good interesting ideas you know I'm 231 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:31,840 since we don't know a lot about 2000s 33 232 00:17:36,510 --> 00:17:34,090 44 it's hard to to make definitive 233 00:17:39,990 --> 00:17:36,520 decisions but but if it is a 234 00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:40,000 carbonaceous object you know it's it 235 00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,310 certainly is a very accessible source of 236 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:44,640 resources as well as a human mission 237 00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:46,930 target whether or not bringing that 238 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:49,840 close to the Earth's vicinity because of 239 00:17:59,940 --> 00:17:51,970 its size that may start to you know 240 00:18:02,280 --> 00:17:59,950 invoke some consternation by folks yeah 241 00:18:04,770 --> 00:18:02,290 yeah that's that's just the issue again 242 00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:04,780 with the redirect mission you know a big 243 00:18:10,890 --> 00:18:07,750 driver was to keep it small so that it 244 00:18:12,540 --> 00:18:10,900 was not a threat of any sort of entry so 245 00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:12,550 that might start to violate that go 246 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:13,990 ahead Brian I want to comment on the 247 00:18:18,810 --> 00:18:16,690 land of summary it calls the l4 and l5 248 00:18:20,660 --> 00:18:18,820 points stable but in fact they are not 249 00:18:22,770 --> 00:18:20,670 stable because when you introduce the 250 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:22,780 perturbation the periodic forcing 251 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:24,850 function of the Sun the solar tidal 252 00:18:30,030 --> 00:18:26,770 influence in the rotating reference 253 00:18:31,620 --> 00:18:30,040 frame you find that a particle placed 254 00:18:34,380 --> 00:18:31,630 exactly one of those points will be 255 00:18:36,990 --> 00:18:34,390 driven out within about six months yeah 256 00:18:39,780 --> 00:18:37,000 so you want to say Kwazii stable enough 257 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:39,790 that there may be I don't really exactly 258 00:18:46,860 --> 00:18:41,650 use the word stable maybe he did again 259 00:18:48,810 --> 00:18:46,870 how about 30 minutes yeah yeah I mean it 260 00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:48,820 right if you if you have active control 261 00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:50,320 you can keep things there indefinitely 262 00:18:56,810 --> 00:18:54,640 right and animal right right and and 263 00:19:01,230 --> 00:18:56,820 minimally compared to the unstable 264 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:01,240 LaGrant the truly unparallel at one l1 265 00:19:08,060 --> 00:19:04,570 l2 too yeah i thought four and five were 266 00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:08,070 stable orbiting the point i mean you are 267 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:11,110 I've seen several things on this so i 268 00:19:18,030 --> 00:19:14,050 liked it i think one two and three are 269 00:19:19,770 --> 00:19:18,040 in a saddle point yeah but for a fiver 270 00:19:22,410 --> 00:19:19,780 unstable if you look at the gist the 271 00:19:25,140 --> 00:19:22,420 potential well but there's been numerous 272 00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:25,150 models that have these uh these objects 273 00:19:33,940 --> 00:19:26,240 orbiting 274 00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:33,950 oh right uh right i mean there are 275 00:19:40,690 --> 00:19:38,000 putting it at the point not as good as 276 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:40,700 some orbits that is true but none of the 277 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:47,450 orbits are stable in the one can you go 278 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:49,130 to the mic if you're going to join in 279 00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:50,330 the conversation with people online can 280 00:19:54,340 --> 00:19:52,130 hear ya I've heard both stories on this 281 00:19:55,870 --> 00:19:54,350 so the only thing is for asteroids is an 282 00:19:57,580 --> 00:19:55,880 example there are simulations that 283 00:20:00,640 --> 00:19:57,590 demonstrate that asteroids primordial 284 00:20:02,770 --> 00:20:00,650 asteroids could be in the vicinity of 285 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:02,780 the garage the triangular Lagrange 286 00:20:07,980 --> 00:20:04,730 points on the order of the age of the 287 00:20:10,330 --> 00:20:07,990 solar system at son no for the earth 288 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:10,340 yeah that's pretty new Mahalo for 289 00:20:22,090 --> 00:20:18,250 instance so they are stable but hey dear 290 00:20:24,190 --> 00:20:22,100 yes i'm a top- management okay yeah can 291 00:20:25,570 --> 00:20:24,200 we probably this is going down in the 292 00:20:28,270 --> 00:20:25,580 weeds a little too much I think for this 293 00:20:30,460 --> 00:20:28,280 conversation so let's try and keep it to 294 00:20:33,130 --> 00:20:30,470 the point at hand yeah i recommend 295 00:20:37,090 --> 00:20:33,140 potentially stable l4 l5 points leave it 296 00:20:38,740 --> 00:20:37,100 at that I would just let's just leave it 297 00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:38,750 at out of that I don't worry about that 298 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:44,720 you do go to the microphone please yeah 299 00:20:50,380 --> 00:20:48,770 just so everybody can hear as you going 300 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:50,390 through these are you sort of going to 301 00:20:57,010 --> 00:20:53,450 collect themes that came up over and 302 00:21:00,760 --> 00:20:57,020 over like one thing that we heard was in 303 00:21:03,910 --> 00:21:00,770 orbit you know doing drought gravity 304 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:03,920 tracking in in in the velocity vector 305 00:21:09,100 --> 00:21:06,170 was the preferred approach I think three 306 00:21:10,770 --> 00:21:09,110 speakers said that okay yeah what's this 307 00:21:13,510 --> 00:21:10,780 just a summary what we're going to do is 308 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:13,520 we've got some additional slides that we 309 00:21:16,780 --> 00:21:15,290 can we can address that if I didn't call 310 00:21:18,669 --> 00:21:16,790 it out already i think that actually is 311 00:21:22,330 --> 00:21:18,679 appointed in i didn't capture that we 312 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:22,340 didn't capture okay we move on to the 313 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:24,290 next slide up now stand one more on Jeff 314 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:28,130 Landis's the defense against is kind of 315 00:21:30,780 --> 00:21:29,450 vague you might want to say exactly how 316 00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:30,790 it would defend I think 317 00:21:35,130 --> 00:21:33,280 his intent was to drive it into an 318 00:21:36,990 --> 00:21:35,140 incoming asteroid but just as it stands 319 00:21:44,220 --> 00:21:37,000 it doesn't really capture the the key 320 00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:44,230 point is that cool enough good enough 321 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:52,960 for me okay yeah again it's not clear 322 00:21:56,700 --> 00:21:55,330 you know it's it's basically the what I 323 00:21:59,070 --> 00:21:56,710 call the Superman effect putting 324 00:22:01,830 --> 00:21:59,080 Superman in front of the Train you know 325 00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:01,840 can Superman just stand there or does he 326 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:04,240 have to to get a head of steam up on it 327 00:22:09,630 --> 00:22:06,850 all depends so depends on the the target 328 00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:09,640 and the availability of trajectories so 329 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:13,120 I think that's probably good enough josh 330 00:22:20,580 --> 00:22:16,330 is said he was going to run a little bit 331 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:20,590 late we can come back and let him look 332 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:22,450 at that yeah cuz he I just had breakfast 333 00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:26,770 with him he's not in the room okay and 334 00:22:36,180 --> 00:22:30,910 then John Brophy I think John had to 335 00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:36,190 leave as well yeah so Brian maybe you 336 00:22:40,380 --> 00:22:37,600 can look at that real quick it is being 337 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:40,390 here I I was awake last night when I was 338 00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:50,030 providing work over 339 00:22:59,600 --> 00:22:53,600 yeah okay I think I cut that out of his 340 00:23:04,100 --> 00:22:59,610 one of his slides so all right and Scott 341 00:23:07,070 --> 00:23:04,110 I got Scott's not here right now so I 342 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:07,080 try to summarize folks can the audience 343 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:08,130 could look at that real quick and see if 344 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:10,890 did it okay I know Paul looked at these 345 00:23:18,590 --> 00:23:13,770 last night so what's more eyes are 346 00:23:22,460 --> 00:23:18,600 always good that's at least what was 347 00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:22,470 advocated in his paper and his 348 00:23:31,940 --> 00:23:26,760 presentation ok so is Rob Rob here I'll 349 00:23:36,620 --> 00:23:31,950 be lost Rob text is a little bit smaller 350 00:23:41,150 --> 00:23:36,630 here and on can kind of look through 351 00:23:44,540 --> 00:23:41,160 these Rob yours is kind of short and 352 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:44,550 sweet I I thought it captured it all but 353 00:23:52,490 --> 00:23:59,110 and others little black 354 00:24:07,730 --> 00:24:03,040 just change text color fur forget Steve 355 00:24:12,590 --> 00:24:07,740 and then Jonathan is Jonathan here now 356 00:24:14,510 --> 00:24:12,600 Oh Jonathan was virtual thank you but I 357 00:24:19,370 --> 00:24:14,520 think I captured in Jonathan's all of 358 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:19,380 the different spacecraft mechanisms that 359 00:24:26,030 --> 00:24:24,210 they were that he addressed so regarding 360 00:24:29,330 --> 00:24:26,040 on the on the I think was the second 361 00:24:31,370 --> 00:24:29,340 slide you had the remark that the 362 00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:31,380 kinetic impactor would only be relevant 363 00:24:38,450 --> 00:24:33,990 for the following pick up a bolder 364 00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:38,460 approach which get to the question that 365 00:24:41,270 --> 00:24:39,840 I brought up yesterday I think somebody 366 00:24:45,770 --> 00:24:41,280 else brought up yesterday as well is 367 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:45,780 whether or not the Grand Challenge is a 368 00:24:51,670 --> 00:24:48,450 large program that includes the asteroid 369 00:24:54,770 --> 00:24:51,680 retrieval mission as an element right or 370 00:24:57,020 --> 00:24:54,780 as the RFI is written right now one 371 00:24:58,700 --> 00:24:57,030 might unfortunately get the sort of 372 00:25:01,490 --> 00:24:58,710 cynical perspective that the Grand 373 00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:01,500 Challenge is just a vehicle for the 374 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:07,110 asteroid retrieval mission so and you 375 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:09,450 look at that there are fights the 376 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:11,730 implication is that the only way to do a 377 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:14,010 deflection demonstration under this 378 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:18,930 program is with the ARV yeah so Steve I 379 00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:23,850 think the intent was to use the asteroid 380 00:25:28,460 --> 00:25:26,910 redirect mission so again if everybody 381 00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:28,470 remembers how its laid out we have the 382 00:25:34,820 --> 00:25:31,910 asteroid initiative this this big 383 00:25:36,890 --> 00:25:34,830 nebulous thing and inside of that is the 384 00:25:40,580 --> 00:25:36,900 asteroid redirect mission which includes 385 00:25:41,870 --> 00:25:40,590 both the crew and the the robotic 386 00:25:44,060 --> 00:25:41,880 mission as well as the observation 387 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:44,070 program and then we've got the grant 388 00:25:49,310 --> 00:25:47,010 challenge which includes basically 389 00:25:51,020 --> 00:25:49,320 planetary defense or mitigation 390 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:51,030 approaches is what it's usually put on 391 00:25:56,510 --> 00:25:53,730 their stakeholder stuff and then and 392 00:25:58,660 --> 00:25:56,520 then also is the observation program and 393 00:26:01,400 --> 00:25:58,670 what's the fourth thing on the bottom 394 00:26:04,910 --> 00:26:01,410 there's one thing in the middle but um 395 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:04,920 but so it's the overlap so originally as 396 00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:07,970 the asteroid initiative was was 397 00:26:11,250 --> 00:26:10,710 formulated the planetary defense part of 398 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:11,260 it 399 00:26:25,730 --> 00:26:21,970 was to utilize the asteroid redirect 400 00:26:29,340 --> 00:26:25,740 robotic mission as a demonstration 401 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:29,350 platform for planetary defense that 402 00:26:36,660 --> 00:26:32,050 being said certainly it's kept under the 403 00:26:40,410 --> 00:26:36,670 grand challenge so it's not just so this 404 00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:40,420 call for ideas is less related to the 405 00:26:47,010 --> 00:26:43,510 grand challenge and more related to the 406 00:26:51,060 --> 00:26:47,020 asteroid redirect mission for planetary 407 00:26:52,380 --> 00:26:51,070 defense so so so I know that's idea 408 00:26:55,650 --> 00:26:52,390 actually I think that's an unfortunate 409 00:26:57,780 --> 00:26:55,660 narrowing of the scope of the of the 410 00:27:00,300 --> 00:26:57,790 call for ideas which I noticed as soon 411 00:27:04,770 --> 00:27:00,310 as I read this several months ago right 412 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:04,780 um and I think that as chairs you have 413 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:09,010 some opportunity to whether it's as an 414 00:27:13,260 --> 00:27:10,810 ancillary information to enlarge the 415 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:13,270 scope of the summary like to capture 416 00:27:17,850 --> 00:27:15,730 things like this so for instance in your 417 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:17,860 in the next slide you say that the canal 418 00:27:23,730 --> 00:27:20,610 across Connecticut impacted 419 00:27:25,770 --> 00:27:23,740 demonstration is really only applicable 420 00:27:30,210 --> 00:27:25,780 at the end of the pic of pick up a rock 421 00:27:33,210 --> 00:27:30,220 mission but I guess strictly reading the 422 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:33,220 wording of the RFI that's that's true 423 00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:36,610 but I don't think it's true in a larger 424 00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:38,320 sense of the grand challenge so I think 425 00:27:41,550 --> 00:27:40,000 right somehow that should be captured 426 00:27:44,010 --> 00:27:41,560 and what's captured it's going to catch 427 00:27:46,170 --> 00:27:44,020 right here I think that's part of what 428 00:27:48,090 --> 00:27:46,180 was captured in some of the other slides 429 00:27:49,650 --> 00:27:48,100 if you go on to this yeah when we get to 430 00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:49,660 the end but yet to the SD makes a good 431 00:28:01,410 --> 00:27:53,200 point is setting the tone on how to word 432 00:28:17,630 --> 00:28:07,980 but is definitely applicable yeah I get 433 00:28:25,690 --> 00:28:17,640 it to mitigation approaches for the 434 00:28:34,659 --> 00:28:30,490 it's all right Steve I mean I think it's 435 00:28:40,710 --> 00:28:34,669 actually applicable you know I it could 436 00:28:47,740 --> 00:28:43,899 yeah I'm in this area see there's 437 00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:47,750 distinction here is because this this 438 00:28:53,379 --> 00:28:50,320 concept of this cosmic billiards is 439 00:28:56,110 --> 00:28:53,389 kinetic impactor on a grand scale but 440 00:28:57,759 --> 00:28:56,120 it's using the ARV as that kinetic 441 00:29:00,220 --> 00:28:57,769 impactor a couple of presentations talk 442 00:29:03,490 --> 00:29:00,230 about this this low-cost impactor is 443 00:29:06,190 --> 00:29:03,500 something like Isis or some el cross 444 00:29:07,810 --> 00:29:06,200 derived or other spacecraft so there's a 445 00:29:09,549 --> 00:29:07,820 there's a difference because when we got 446 00:29:11,799 --> 00:29:09,559 the proposals there there were these 447 00:29:24,250 --> 00:29:11,809 groupings and that's why we group them 448 00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:24,260 into these areas well okay so yeah right 449 00:29:28,779 --> 00:29:26,110 move we'll go that way Everett there's 450 00:29:30,460 --> 00:29:28,789 we keep adding letters to the acronyms 451 00:29:32,049 --> 00:29:30,470 left and right although I was trying to 452 00:29:33,820 --> 00:29:32,059 think about whether it should be even 453 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:33,830 strong I mean you could say that in 454 00:29:42,820 --> 00:29:37,610 general kinetic impactors are a key 455 00:29:45,159 --> 00:29:42,830 element in any mitigation toolbox two 456 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:45,169 techniques or something I mean that it's 457 00:29:48,279 --> 00:29:46,610 hard to imagine if we really had a 458 00:29:50,529 --> 00:29:48,289 problem that we wouldn't you know 459 00:29:52,269 --> 00:29:50,539 seriously seriously consider doing an 460 00:29:54,370 --> 00:29:52,279 impactor and so getting some sort of 461 00:29:59,500 --> 00:29:54,380 demonstration out there I don't know I 462 00:30:07,460 --> 00:29:59,510 just about this key but where did you 463 00:30:11,029 --> 00:30:09,409 we'll be all right key element 464 00:30:14,060 --> 00:30:11,039 applicable to mitigation approaches for 465 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:14,070 the grand challenge but probably only 466 00:30:20,690 --> 00:30:16,890 applicable to the at the end of the 467 00:30:23,870 --> 00:30:20,700 pickup erotic mission for the arm does 468 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:23,880 that does that turn it around and make 469 00:30:29,330 --> 00:30:26,250 it a little bit stronger and again this 470 00:30:30,380 --> 00:30:29,340 is a consensus of of our group so there 471 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:30,390 might be people outside of this group 472 00:30:34,490 --> 00:30:32,610 that disagree but when it be more 473 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:34,500 appropriate to just say that it's only 474 00:30:38,390 --> 00:30:36,210 applicable for the pick up a rock 475 00:30:40,340 --> 00:30:38,400 mission because it's not applicable at 476 00:30:41,539 --> 00:30:40,350 all to the other mission and the way 477 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:41,549 that's where it it doesn't exactly 478 00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:45,450 convey that yeah so yeah I think I think 479 00:30:49,220 --> 00:30:47,520 that's true I i I'd like to sometimes 480 00:30:53,149 --> 00:30:49,230 use weasel words because when you get in 481 00:30:55,580 --> 00:30:53,159 definitive stuff it um you get in 482 00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:55,590 trouble but okay maybe you could find a 483 00:30:58,940 --> 00:30:57,600 I think that's all over the satellite 484 00:31:01,460 --> 00:30:58,950 and hit the satellite or something but 485 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:01,470 that seems like yeah well you can 486 00:31:05,090 --> 00:31:02,970 there's been this thought that you could 487 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:05,100 go somewhere else on the way and if you 488 00:31:10,010 --> 00:31:07,650 have enough time then sure we probably 489 00:31:12,740 --> 00:31:10,020 don't have that much time than principle 490 00:31:13,789 --> 00:31:12,750 you could do to reduce right right so 491 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:13,799 that actually that's that's the good 492 00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:15,450 point that's probably why probably why I 493 00:31:22,730 --> 00:31:20,880 put probably there there are some some 494 00:31:27,250 --> 00:31:22,740 situations that we view that we've 495 00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:27,260 considered but their likelihood is small 496 00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:30,510 so what that what that would mean is 497 00:31:38,090 --> 00:31:36,809 that well let me give you example that's 498 00:31:41,779 --> 00:31:38,100 actually Tim that's not the one because 499 00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:41,789 you would still be doing the kinetic 500 00:31:52,250 --> 00:31:47,039 impact with the ARV no no use the 501 00:31:54,770 --> 00:31:52,260 microphone so so there's the end of 502 00:31:56,930 --> 00:31:54,780 mission ARV impact prank scenario but 503 00:31:58,159 --> 00:31:56,940 that's kind of not very interesting 504 00:32:01,100 --> 00:31:58,169 because you still have to observe it 505 00:32:03,799 --> 00:32:01,110 with somebody else oh okay so this would 506 00:32:05,149 --> 00:32:03,809 be the idea that that you know you don't 507 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:05,159 care if you get back to the earth until 508 00:32:09,169 --> 00:32:07,770 the light 2020s and you still launch 509 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:09,179 early enough to go rendezvous right 510 00:32:12,350 --> 00:32:11,010 somebody somebody comes in and wax it 511 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:12,360 you play all the games with it then you 512 00:32:18,629 --> 00:32:14,010 go on and grab a small rock and bring it 513 00:32:24,249 --> 00:32:22,210 or or another another one could be at 514 00:32:27,310 --> 00:32:24,259 end of mission for the find a small one 515 00:32:30,659 --> 00:32:27,320 or grab a small one would be to come 516 00:32:33,639 --> 00:32:30,669 back out of cislunar space and then 517 00:32:36,899 --> 00:32:33,649 maybe we have this you know the concept 518 00:32:39,310 --> 00:32:36,909 is that we may repurpose the SEP system 519 00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:39,320 the instruments are an issue because 520 00:32:46,539 --> 00:32:42,799 they're basically now covered by the by 521 00:32:48,940 --> 00:32:46,549 the asteroid but they're so let's leave 522 00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:48,950 it it probably that's always put weasel 523 00:32:51,639 --> 00:32:50,240 words because creative engineers can 524 00:32:53,950 --> 00:32:51,649 come up with some way of doing something 525 00:32:57,129 --> 00:32:53,960 that we can't think of right now in the 526 00:32:59,470 --> 00:32:57,139 room go to Brian I you know the term key 527 00:33:01,629 --> 00:32:59,480 element I just like to point out that 528 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:01,639 kinetic impactors are really hard to do 529 00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:04,730 well because the Delta V tends not to be 530 00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:07,039 along the direction of motion and cross 531 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:08,720 track motion as we heard many times 532 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:10,610 yesterday you know it's not very helpful 533 00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:14,090 so well but that's totally true as the 534 00:33:17,470 --> 00:33:15,769 well it's not necessarily true but 535 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:17,480 unless you go out and go round Jupiter 536 00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:19,610 and get into a retrograde orbit it's 537 00:33:25,629 --> 00:33:22,240 very hard to get extremely high 538 00:33:29,169 --> 00:33:25,639 velocities a long track compared to the 539 00:33:33,070 --> 00:33:29,179 ion beam deflector you mean by extremely 540 00:33:35,710 --> 00:33:33,080 high but if you look yes okay well okay 541 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:35,720 well let me okay okay good good finish 542 00:33:39,850 --> 00:33:37,850 under the shell finish the point which 543 00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:39,860 is that the ion beam deflection as 544 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:42,799 brophy I think said yesterday well you 545 00:33:46,239 --> 00:33:44,450 know gives you like 30 kilometers a 546 00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:46,249 second with essentially all of your 547 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:48,710 propellant load right and and you do 548 00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:50,690 give up this factor of two that you have 549 00:33:54,070 --> 00:33:52,369 a beam that shines on the asteroid you 550 00:33:56,859 --> 00:33:54,080 have another beam that shines out into 551 00:33:59,619 --> 00:33:56,869 space so that is a penalty but when you 552 00:34:01,659 --> 00:33:59,629 look at the difficulty of getting an 553 00:34:05,289 --> 00:34:01,669 equivalent velocity you know 30 554 00:34:08,020 --> 00:34:05,299 kilometers a second down track relative 555 00:34:10,329 --> 00:34:08,030 velocity so now Tim and you and the 556 00:34:12,369 --> 00:34:10,339 other dynamics guys and tell me that you 557 00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:12,379 have a way to get 30 kilometers a second 558 00:34:18,700 --> 00:34:14,569 cup down track can I feel that real 559 00:34:20,770 --> 00:34:18,710 quick okay so there's a key element with 560 00:34:23,230 --> 00:34:20,780 respect to all of these these slow 561 00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:23,240 acting techniques and that's warning 562 00:34:29,540 --> 00:34:26,720 time if we have a very short warning 563 00:34:32,750 --> 00:34:29,550 time event those fall off to take 564 00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:32,760 as long we showed us additionally when 565 00:34:37,580 --> 00:34:34,910 you get very close to the time of impact 566 00:34:40,250 --> 00:34:37,590 directing that that change in velocity 567 00:34:42,650 --> 00:34:40,260 of momentum along the the velocity 568 00:34:44,450 --> 00:34:42,660 Direction is not necessarily and in 569 00:34:47,230 --> 00:34:44,460 general is not the way you want to do it 570 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:47,240 there are particular out-of-plane 571 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:50,130 impacts that you would want to do for a 572 00:34:54,740 --> 00:34:52,170 very short warning time where you're not 573 00:34:56,570 --> 00:34:54,750 worried about changing the the orbital 574 00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:56,580 elements you're really worried about our 575 00:35:00,050 --> 00:34:58,560 the long-term propagation orbital 576 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:00,060 elements you're really worried about 577 00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:01,770 getting the dang thing from hitting the 578 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:10,280 use the microphone guys please thanks 579 00:35:18,110 --> 00:35:15,210 Bob the the I mean I'm being reflection 580 00:35:20,810 --> 00:35:18,120 thing is something that that is new 581 00:35:23,150 --> 00:35:20,820 enough that it isn't well established in 582 00:35:25,370 --> 00:35:23,160 our Bob and I think that some of what 583 00:35:27,980 --> 00:35:25,380 you say is correct but it's also true 584 00:35:29,330 --> 00:35:27,990 that that you know you have to 585 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:29,340 rendezvous first and you have to have 586 00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:32,370 enough time to do the stuff and so so I 587 00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:34,470 think that you know maybe maybe key 588 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:36,240 element is too strong maybe important 589 00:35:41,660 --> 00:35:40,050 element is more or I don't know about I 590 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:41,670 take your point you hear some of what 591 00:35:47,810 --> 00:35:45,930 you say is true it's all true I think we 592 00:35:50,780 --> 00:35:47,820 have to close our discussion yeah I 593 00:35:53,300 --> 00:35:50,790 wanna help I agree that it is a key 594 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:53,310 element so kinetic impactor technology 595 00:35:58,580 --> 00:35:56,010 is the key element is a key element it's 596 00:36:01,940 --> 00:35:58,590 a crucial element for any measure we are 597 00:36:03,890 --> 00:36:01,950 not arguing whether gravity tractor ion 598 00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:03,900 beam is better than kinetic impactor 599 00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:05,760 well yet we should not be wasting our 600 00:36:17,180 --> 00:36:13,260 time on talking that is ok we we will 601 00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:17,190 have Jeff Landis calling in ok so yeah 602 00:36:26,420 --> 00:36:22,200 oh yeah just we can here you go son the 603 00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:26,430 factual area actually work so then 604 00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:30,240 yesterday but a lot of problems alright 605 00:36:35,460 --> 00:36:32,880 yeah sorry i've been listening for the 606 00:36:40,859 --> 00:36:35,470 last half hour trying to get through 607 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:40,869 I thanks are very confusing here to see 608 00:36:47,730 --> 00:36:43,330 you very much about 15 seconds behind oh 609 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:47,740 yes we probably still have that delay so 610 00:36:54,150 --> 00:36:52,570 so Jeff whoops what's your comment as as 611 00:36:56,940 --> 00:36:54,160 you come into the session here and I'll 612 00:36:58,560 --> 00:36:56,950 slowly flip through charts that's going 613 00:37:04,470 --> 00:36:58,570 to be unfortunate for the focus on line 614 00:37:07,290 --> 00:37:04,480 if we're flipping around oh yeah I have 615 00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:07,300 some comments a little bit on the 616 00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:12,880 earlier earlier ideas but I think mostly 617 00:37:18,570 --> 00:37:15,040 you've sort of moved on to other things 618 00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,580 so maybe I should just to justify on 619 00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:20,320 here on welcome tomorrow we'll see did 620 00:37:24,540 --> 00:37:22,960 you Jeff do you have any specific 621 00:37:28,950 --> 00:37:24,550 comments that you'd like to make anyway 622 00:37:31,260 --> 00:37:28,960 as basically as your is your concept 623 00:37:34,589 --> 00:37:31,270 well represented I'm trying to fight it 624 00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:34,599 but i think it is adequately represented 625 00:37:41,310 --> 00:37:38,950 i make him I should have family tweets 626 00:37:43,950 --> 00:37:41,320 it the wording about saying going to the 627 00:37:46,170 --> 00:37:43,960 disabled Lagrange points us obviously 628 00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:46,180 you don't just park in the stable 629 00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:48,160 Lagrange point service Android just 630 00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:54,510 windows to sort of a interplanetary 631 00:38:03,510 --> 00:37:58,720 slingshot between I transferred her face 632 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:03,520 and and interplanetary space okay so in 633 00:38:09,450 --> 00:38:06,490 the interest of time I think we okay 634 00:38:15,180 --> 00:38:09,460 with that last slide onto kinetic 635 00:38:17,730 --> 00:38:15,190 impactor yeah I think we're fine steve 636 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:17,740 carell facing disease I'm very dubious 637 00:38:26,370 --> 00:38:23,650 about the gravity tractor idea that's an 638 00:38:28,349 --> 00:38:26,380 awfully weak force that you're you're 639 00:38:32,099 --> 00:38:28,359 using their i'm not sure why people are 640 00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:32,109 taking that variably well again jeff i 641 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:35,440 think i think the the new approach to 642 00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,330 the gravity tractor is this enhanced 643 00:38:44,670 --> 00:38:39,359 gravity tractor with mass augmentation 644 00:38:46,990 --> 00:38:44,680 that really changes the the effective 645 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:47,000 time period of that approach and poss 646 00:38:51,850 --> 00:38:49,370 he makes it valuable for certain types 647 00:38:55,060 --> 00:38:51,860 of deflection opportunities and again in 648 00:38:56,620 --> 00:38:55,070 paleontology problem and it became 649 00:38:58,450 --> 00:38:56,630 substantial is josh hawkins showed 650 00:39:01,450 --> 00:38:58,460 yesterday you can't really run to vote 651 00:39:03,820 --> 00:39:01,460 with and land on asteroids suit again 652 00:39:10,210 --> 00:39:03,830 just it seems to be solving a problem 653 00:39:13,110 --> 00:39:10,220 that arguably doesn't even exist we 654 00:39:17,170 --> 00:39:13,120 don't know can you explain it just Oh 655 00:39:19,330 --> 00:39:17,180 itself in the problem how do you affect 656 00:39:22,570 --> 00:39:19,340 an asteroid without actually touching 657 00:39:26,260 --> 00:39:22,580 the asteroid and then we'll wipe why 658 00:39:29,710 --> 00:39:26,270 bother you if they an argument that says 659 00:39:36,130 --> 00:39:29,720 it is so hard to land on that droid move 660 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:36,140 an asteroid portion after I've or you 661 00:39:40,540 --> 00:39:38,930 know even piece in an average that we 662 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:40,550 have to be able to do these without 663 00:39:45,550 --> 00:39:43,130 touching it and I just don't think that 664 00:39:47,710 --> 00:39:45,560 that's true I don't think there's a good 665 00:39:49,990 --> 00:39:47,720 argument that says that you have to move 666 00:39:52,510 --> 00:39:50,000 an asteroid without actually being in 667 00:39:55,660 --> 00:39:52,520 contact with them yeah it's not that you 668 00:39:57,700 --> 00:39:55,670 have to it's just one option and and the 669 00:39:59,590 --> 00:39:57,710 issue is if you if you provide a 670 00:40:02,380 --> 00:39:59,600 continuous force that continuous 671 00:40:05,350 --> 00:40:02,390 touching then you're subject to the 672 00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:05,360 rotational period and the motion of the 673 00:40:11,710 --> 00:40:07,910 asteroid to apply the the Delta V in the 674 00:40:14,170 --> 00:40:11,720 right direction so but i think i'm not 675 00:40:17,620 --> 00:40:14,180 sure that that is a problem even if you 676 00:40:19,630 --> 00:40:17,630 can't be rotate an asteroid but if you